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The old DMG calculation system has worked better for years


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MikeLapTrap #1 Posted 17 January 2018 - 06:41 PM

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To begin, I know most people hate RNG but in this game there is already so much RNG that goes on unnoticed. IE: missile dispersion and melee attack/defense.

 

The current armor system is a direct reduction of melee or missile damage received based on (non-armor piercing damage-armor-shield armor). and if that is 0 or negative, then you do 0 damage outside of armor piercing damage, This makes a lot of tiers highly unbalanced, for instance T7 archers do 0 missile damage to T6 medium roman infantry. Where T10 archers can do almost 100 damage per hit to T10 roman medium infantry. Simply because the armor values barely increase while the missile damage goes up much faster with each increasing tier.

 

Never should you feel like your attacks are doing completely nothing, like 6 armor piercing damage. However, the opposite is true when 3 hits from T10 archers can kill a T10 infantry model.

 

In other Total War games, there was a thoroughly tested out system for damage calculations that made it easier for future balancing. Either by official patches or custom mods made by the community. This involved a system of RNG on a % based reduction to damage received from any non armor piercing source.

 

So all missile damage, melee, and explosion damage was reduced based on armor. 0 armor meant 0% reduction.

100 armor meant 50-100% damage reduction

50 armor meant 25-50% damage reduction

and 200 armor meant 100% damage reduction.

 

Notice how there is RNG but a base minimum of half of the armor value. Also no unit in the vanilla versions of a Total War game  had a unit with 200 armor. This system of % based reductions helped make sure that all damage was capable of doing damage but also gave still made sure armor had a use. With a progression system of high tiers always have better armor values, it is easier to balance the increasing damage of higher tier units. This way higher tiers always have a performance advantage over lower tiers but perform at a similar level again their own tier at all tiers. So that way certain units at T6 won't even be under powered while at T10 feel overpowered.

 

 

Take into account that Japanese samurai have been confirmed as a faction to be released later. Given the current armor values, I see samurai with will full bodied steel armor having higher armor values than any unit currently in the game, Especially since the current tech levels of the current 3 factions are bronze or iron. And definitely not full bodied suits. Even if the unit sizes are smaller the unit themselves would still have more armor than imperial guards making them capable of ignoring T10 archer shots to the back simply because they would do 0 missile damage and only do armor piercing damage.

 

 



HeartMiner #2 Posted 18 January 2018 - 02:24 AM

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makes sense... let's see, with your suggestion, shield bash and defiance+rebellion combo wouldn't be doing 400 dmg per hit because percentage dmg reduction instead of a cuttoff. seems good. 

 



MikeLapTrap #3 Posted 18 January 2018 - 03:17 AM

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View PostHeartMiner, on 17 January 2018 - 06:24 PM, said:

makes sense... let's see, with your suggestion, shield bash and defiance+rebellion combo wouldn't be doing 400 dmg per hit because percentage dmg reduction instead of a cuttoff. seems good. 

 

 

Changing the armor values would be a must. Like i stated earlier, no unit in any previous Total War game had 200 armor and for good reason. Otherwise defiance and +Rebellion would end up doing 0 melee damage + Armor penetration damage to T10 Imperial Guards. Right now Defiance + Rebellion would actually do around 550+ melee damage values with any T10 barbarian unit except falxmen.

 

This is the same basic structure to armor in all of the TW Warhammers games, Rome 2, and Attila. So its not like we havn't seen the performance results of it and its not like CA wouldn't have the lines of code pre written in other games to use as an example to implement this.



wwolfvn #4 Posted 19 January 2018 - 06:34 PM

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The armor in other game is used as a percentage reduction, which is better imo.

 

I think the Total War Warscape engine is doing its job. But I don't know exactly what the TW Arena mechanic equation is until it is revealed by the devs, so I can't comment further.


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MikeLapTrap #5 Posted 20 January 2018 - 11:38 PM

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View Postwwolfvn, on 19 January 2018 - 10:34 AM, said:

The armor in other game is used as a percentage reduction, which is better imo.

 

I think the Total War Warscape engine is doing its job. But I don't know exactly what the TW Arena mechanic equations is until it is revealed by the devs, so I can't comment further.

 

Its flat reduction. you see the enemies melee or ranged damage. you subract you armor value from it, you subract your shield armor values from it if your facing them, and that is how much damage you do with every hit, guaranteed after adding in armor piercing.

 

That means if you have 180 missile damage and they have 179 armor, you will do 1 missile damage + armor pen damage. if your missile damage is 200 and their armor is 180, you will do 20 damage plus armor pen.

 

The current system makes balancing terrible since fighting higher tiers makes things really sensitive. You could go from doing amazing damage to doing literally 0 damage + armor pen to an enemy due to higher tier armor.






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