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Skirmish setting

skirmish ranged

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mkloby #1 Posted 06 January 2018 - 02:18 PM

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Has it been discussed previously to have a skirmish setting for ranged units to function similar to other TW games, causing them to automatically maintain distance while executing the ranged attack command?

traumadisaster #2 Posted 06 January 2018 - 02:59 PM

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I haven't seen that suggestion but I like it.  I imagine others will say it's not needed with only 3 units we don't need auto control, but as bad as I am with mix units I need it.

gistankz #3 Posted 06 January 2018 - 03:05 PM

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It seems they don't want to implement things like this as to not take away from the micromanaging of the game.  With only 3 units compared to 20 in other total war games, adding skirmish mode, or set formations, etc. would make the game easier. Catching missile players sleeping is what gives us melee the motivation/incentive to charge after missiles. 

mkloby #4 Posted 06 January 2018 - 03:20 PM

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View PostRobert_Oakridge, on 06 January 2018 - 03:05 PM, said:

It seems they don't want to implement things like this as to not take away from the micromanaging of the game.  With only 3 units compared to 20 in other total war games, adding skirmish mode, or set formations, etc. would make the game easier. Catching missile players sleeping is what gives us melee the motivation/incentive to charge after missiles. 

 

Thanks for the reply, you too trauma. Well, it may make them start moving a few seconds earlier, which could reduce or eliminate your ability to cav charge them, or it could delay it by a few seconds and the result is the same. It could also drive the ranged unit to run in a different direction than intended if it was under human control, which would be the risk in using it. It’s situational if it would help or not. I think it’s worth a look. Interested in everyone’s thoughts.

HybridDragon #5 Posted 06 January 2018 - 03:28 PM

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I'm not necessarily against it on principle, but Arena is a different style of gameplay. Your 20-unit army isn't arranged in a nice straight battle line that the archers can run and hide behind.

 

Some programmer would have to decide:

 

  • How close is too close?
  • Does terrain make a difference? (TW:A terrain is much more irregular than your typical TW:Classic map.)
  • If they're being actively chased, how often are they turning around to fire? Should they ever? How do they decide what the margin of safety is? If they're too aggressive, they'll risk getting caught. If they're too evasive, they'll risk never firing and then it's just "running away" mode.
  • If they're being chased by multiple enemies, where do they run to? What if multiple directions would be equally viable (e.g. enemy units approaching from exactly east and west), but the unit goes north when I'd prefer south?

 

... and probably more. I see it being either too perfect because the computer can crunch numbers better than I can, or too unreliable because the computer can't put the whole situation in scope. Probably "unreliable" 90% of the time.



mkloby #6 Posted 06 January 2018 - 05:25 PM

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View PostHybridDragon, on 06 January 2018 - 03:28 PM, said:

I'm not necessarily against it on principle, but Arena is a different style of gameplay. Your 20-unit army isn't arranged in a nice straight battle line that the archers can run and hide behind.

 

Some programmer would have to decide:

 

  • How close is too close?
  • Does terrain make a difference? (TW:A terrain is much more irregular than your typical TW:Classic map.)
  • If they're being actively chased, how often are they turning around to fire? Should they ever? How do they decide what the margin of safety is? If they're too aggressive, they'll risk getting caught. If they're too evasive, they'll risk never firing and then it's just "running away" mode.
  • If they're being chased by multiple enemies, where do they run to? What if multiple directions would be equally viable (e.g. enemy units approaching from exactly east and west), but the unit goes north when I'd prefer south?

 

... and probably more. I see it being either too perfect because the computer can crunch numbers better than I can, or too unreliable because the computer can't put the whole situation in scope. Probably "unreliable" 90% of the time.

 

To tell you the truth - I'm not sure how I would feel about it either.  However, if we are going to try it, now would be the time before it going open.  Those are good points.  If it was set from a threshold value based on range of weapon, say for example 50% of range and a vector opposite of the targeted unit or of the closest enemy if nobody is targeted, it could be relatively simple to code I would think.  Regarding terrain, not sure how that should apply - but the intent is not to make the skirmish make decisions like a human so that you don't need to control at all, just facilitate ease of control in a general nature.

Edited by mkloby, 06 January 2018 - 05:44 PM.


OtterWolf #7 Posted 09 January 2018 - 07:57 PM

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View Postmkloby, on 06 January 2018 - 05:25 PM, said:

 

To tell you the truth - I'm not sure how I would feel about it either.  However, if we are going to try it, now would be the time before it going open.  Those are good points.  If it was set from a threshold value based on range of weapon, say for example 50% of range and a vector opposite of the targeted unit or of the closest enemy if nobody is targeted, it could be relatively simple to code I would think.  Regarding terrain, not sure how that should apply - but the intent is not to make the skirmish make decisions like a human so that you don't need to control at all, just facilitate ease of control in a general nature.

 

Not sure how I would feel about it too.. It would certainly make handling mixed units easier, it might just be a little too much "click and kill"  .. Kind of like WOWS CV torpedo planes on Auto-drop.

Maybe if it was a consumable?  The archers stay the correct range for a set amount of time?


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mkloby #8 Posted 10 January 2018 - 12:59 AM

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View PostOtterWolf, on 09 January 2018 - 07:57 PM, said:

 

Not sure how I would feel about it too.. It would certainly make handling mixed units easier, it might just be a little too much "click and kill"  .. Kind of like WOWS CV torpedo planes on Auto-drop.

Maybe if it was a consumable?  The archers stay the correct range for a set amount of time?

 

Well funny you bring that auto drop up, as the auto drop is situational. It can be useful on cross crossing simultaneous drops with multiple TBs. But, if you just have a single squadron, it won’t be as effective (torps dropped further out and easier to dodge). I would tend to think that an automated skirmish mode would likely be similar in application. I would still expect that player controlled unit would yield better results, or it can be programmed that way intentionally.





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