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Scorched Earth for cavalry ? - Javelins instead ?

Cavalry Scorched earth

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Poll: Changing "Scorched Earth" for cavalry (14 members have cast votes)

Scorched Earth" for cavalry

  1. Leave it as it is (10 votes [71.43%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 71.43%

  2. Just remove it, no javelins (2 votes [14.29%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 14.29%

  3. Remove the ability, but add javelins to barbarians (2 votes [14.29%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 14.29%

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WRus #1 Posted 05 January 2018 - 07:07 AM

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I would suggest removing this ability for cavalry.

   Firstly, it's the only ranged attack cavalry ability in the game. There are no mounted javelin or mounted archers in this beta, even though they would make more sense game period wise. I understand that balancing traditional range cavalry would be difficult, more so for mounted archers than for javelin. But right now we got this fire casting cavalry that can do a lot damage to units & remove any stakes in seconds.. I would rather have some javelin ability to barbarian cavalry. Say two / three javelins same as infantry.

Many cavalry units had javelins in that time period.. So it would be accurate representation.

   Secondly, the "Scorched Earth" ability is bit absurd... The whole concept of getting some flaming torches from somewhere , aka spelling Fire spell , then setting some stones /sand / dirt/ snow aflame, burning units & everything is seconds it's just laughable. More so for cavalry than for infantry.. I understand that developers want to bring some exciting & and new abilities to commanders. But why to stop there.. Lets bring raising dead, regeneration & other abilities/ spells from Warhammer :) That 's would be consistent with the "Scorched Earth".

Since Arena is not advertised to be a fantasy game and developers are trying to bring some historical accuracy, it would be better if this ability is modified, or at least removed from cavalry. I just added poll for voting.



Arkkinite #2 Posted 05 January 2018 - 07:45 AM

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I dont mind the current form of scorched earth.

 

I dont mind having cavalry with a couple javlins. But, in my mind, javs on infantry are really only for decapping. So cavs with javs would be used to rapid base decapping, and nothing much.



mkloby #3 Posted 05 January 2018 - 11:49 AM

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I think scorched earth is ok in current form. It does serve as a counter to an area denial deployment, such as inf guarding arty or pikes blocking a pass. It doesn’t do a huge amount of damage providing you don’t stay put. Lastly, CA has done a good job of applying abilities based on historical context, and I think this one fits in well.

Ardez #4 Posted 05 January 2018 - 01:28 PM

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One thing is important to remember WRus, Scorched Earth is a commander ability. It is not a unit type(ranged cavalry) or a unit ability. If you take away scorched earth from cavalry. you can't replace it without reworking vercingetorix. You could grant light cavalry a javelin unit ability at the same time that you take SE away from cav, but that would require replacing existing unit abilities which you don't address here.

 

SE is thematic with history, although it is an exaggeration of history. You can do a lot with oil and torches. Jumping from exaggerations to fantasy is a bit different and the logic of your argument doesn't follow very well imo. Nobody was raising people from the dead, but Vercingetorix did literally burn Gallic villages to the ground and destroy the land the romans would follow him to prevent the romans from getting value from it. Sure, it wasn't something used in combat, but the damage on SE is only powerful when stacked, and it is more powerful when more men are throwing torches. Cavalry throwing torches, AFAIK, is weaker than infantry throwing torches. Stacked cavalry SE is weaker than stacked infantry SE. Unstacked cavalry SE will not be very powerful at all, but is more area denial than DPS. It convinces you to get off of it or not enter it based on visuals when if you actually entered it you would find that you don't take too much damage.

 

 

Personally, I don't see the issue with the ability in its current state.



WRus #5 Posted 05 January 2018 - 04:56 PM

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View PostArdez, on 05 January 2018 - 05:28 AM, said:

One thing is important to remember WRus, Scorched Earth is a commander ability. It is not a unit type(ranged cavalry) or a unit ability. If you take away scorched earth from cavalry. you can't replace it without reworking vercingetorix. You could grant light cavalry a javelin unit ability at the same time that you take SE away from cav, but that would require replacing existing unit abilities which you don't address here.To

To Ardez: I was thinking of disabling this ability for cavalry, the same way Germanicus  & Milti abilities can't be used with the cavalry..

 

Obviously, raising dead is on the other end of the fantasy spectrum. As you said, nobody used "scorched earth" in combat. I wouldn't have problem with " Greek fire" spraying unit. But it shouldn't be mounted.

Let me give another example. If the upcoming Japanese faction would have some kind of " Divine Wind " ability, that cause wind twisters to destroy legions & greeks is would be kind of the same, just silly. 

The ability would be based on historical events, when wind/ storm prevented Mongols of conquering Japan.. Wind twisters for samurais. Each of the units can cast a twister and they are stackable :) For me Scorched earth just as silly. 

Also, the problem is that scorched earth is stackable, why is it? Currently I play arty a lot, and most of the time the magic fire comes from all three units. Since my battle vision is mostly away to prevent any FF, by the time I start moving my units around , they are already badly damaged. At the Steam beta, I used to play barbarians a lot. Right now Verci is commander of choice for barbarians, especially with his over the top abilities. I just can't bring myself playing him.. I 've got very limited time for gaming these days, so I'm selective with where I 'll spend it. In my opinion, the scorched earth , especially mounted, is annoying & very unrealistic..

 



Lastsparten #6 Posted 06 January 2018 - 12:30 AM

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View PostWRus, on 05 January 2018 - 04:56 PM, said:

To Ardez: I was thinking of disabling this ability for cavalry, the same way Germanicus  & Milti abilities can't be used with the cavalry..

 

Obviously, raising dead is on the other end of the fantasy spectrum. As you said, nobody used "scorched earth" in combat. I wouldn't have problem with " Greek fire" spraying unit. But it shouldn't be mounted.

Let me give another example. If the upcoming Japanese faction would have some kind of " Divine Wind " ability, that cause wind twisters to destroy legions & greeks is would be kind of the same, just silly. 

The ability would be based on historical events, when wind/ storm prevented Mongols of conquering Japan.. For me Scorched earth just as silly. 

Also, the problem is that scorched earth is stackable, why is it? Currently I play arty a lot, and most of the time the magic fire comes from all three units. Since my battle vision is mostly away to prevent any FF, by the time I start moving my units around , they are already badly damaged. At the Steam beta, I used to play barbarians a lot. Right now Verci is commander of choice for barbarians, especially with his over the top abilities. I just can't bring myself playing him.. I 've got very limited time for gaming these days, so I'm selective with where I 'll spend it. In my opinion, the scorched earth , especially mounted, is annoying & very unrealistic..

 

 

wouldnt mind it if they just gave it a # of uses or increased the cd by twice. i get kited all day long with it while i play Greek hops. unemy runs up does scoreched earth runs away rince repeat till im dead. enemy has full life  and never engaged once

R_Valle #7 Posted 06 January 2018 - 11:28 PM

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View PostLastsparten, on 05 January 2018 - 09:30 PM, said:

 

wouldnt mind it if they just gave it a # of uses or increased the cd by twice. i get kited all day long with it while i play Greek hops. unemy runs up does scoreched earth runs away rince repeat till im dead. enemy has full life  and never engaged once


Cavalry Scorched Earth deals little damage, never received more than 1k damage from it. You only get rekt by it if you are engaged and can't retreat and the 135 cav throws it at you. But you shouldn't get kited by it, since it has about 60 sec cooldown. You can try to find some missile ally to help you kill that cav, don't forget that this is a team game.







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