Jump to content


Add raised shields ability to every shielded melee infantry.

raised shield ability every melee infantry

  • Please log in to reply
32 replies to this topic

R_Valle #1 Posted 30 October 2017 - 01:02 PM

    Junior Sergeant

  • Closed Alpha Gladiators
  • 179
  • Member since:
    08-18-2017
I can't see why not. It makes sense. I cringe every time I'm getting shot by missile units and I have this huge shield in my soldiers hands but they have some mental disorder that prevents them from lifting it, only by the outstanding and brilliance advice of a commander they realize that if they raise them, the arrows will hurt less.

It will not make Germanicus Testudo and Leonidas Fight in the Shade obsolete or worthless, because the unit ability is not upgradable, making the commanders ability stronger. 

It will not be a huge loss for missile units because they already have infinite ammo, back/side shots do not get blocked by raised shields, and your team can force the enemy unit to lower its shields just by getting near to them, making teamwork even more a thing.
 

wwolfvn #2 Posted 30 October 2017 - 03:53 PM

    Sergeant

  • Closed Alpha Gladiators
  • 481
  • Member since:
    02-24-2017

View PostR_Valle, on 30 October 2017 - 07:02 AM, said:

I can't see why not. It makes sense. I cringe every time I'm getting shot by missile units and I have this huge shield in my soldiers hands but they have some mental disorder that prevent them from lifting it, only by the outstanding and brilliance advice of a commander they realize that if they raise them, the arrows will hurt less.

Well played :D

 

Totally agree. Shielded melee infantry units should be able to use their shields to protect themselves from missiles regardless of their commanders.


"Opportunities multiply as they are seized."


balkasg #3 Posted 30 October 2017 - 05:55 PM

    Lance-corporal

  • Closed Alpha Gladiators
  • 89
  • Member since:
    08-31-2017
I second this suggestion, great idea

Arkkinite #4 Posted 31 October 2017 - 01:45 AM

    Junior Sergeant

  • Closed Alpha Gladiators
  • 180
  • Member since:
    11-27-2016

Would that give some units too many abilities?

Even if so, do you see that as an issue?

In fact, how many abilities you think a unit should have (including commander abilities)?

 

Hmmm, i do not object to the op's suggestion.



wwolfvn #5 Posted 31 October 2017 - 02:47 AM

    Sergeant

  • Closed Alpha Gladiators
  • 481
  • Member since:
    02-24-2017

View PostArkkinite, on 30 October 2017 - 07:45 PM, said:

Would that give some units too many abilities?

Even if so, do you see that as an issue?

In fact, how many abilities you think a unit should have (including commander abilities)?

 

Hmmm, i do not object to the op's suggestion.

 

  Can't hurt to have more abilities at your disposal. :D

"Opportunities multiply as they are seized."


R_Valle #6 Posted 31 October 2017 - 03:15 AM

    Junior Sergeant

  • Closed Alpha Gladiators
  • 179
  • Member since:
    08-18-2017

I think such crucial ability can't be neglected, its just a must have.

 

And about having too much abilities, I dont think adding this would be an issue, I'd rather have another ability than get my units wrecked because they cant lift their shields. 

 

Also, this ability isnt a micro-heavy one. You wont need to keep pressing it a lot of times in a match. Most of its use is when you are far away from the target, because once you reach the enemy, you wont need it anymore as it will only debuff your melee fighting stats.

 



Ardez #7 Posted 31 October 2017 - 03:16 AM

    Zhayedan

  • Praetorian
  • 2,237
  • Member since:
    03-06-2012

I may be biased, but archers should be infantry without a shield block ability. How will that happen if they all have it? Ranged units already have to expose themselves pretty severely to get around testudo units. Raise shield on all units, I think, just goes closer to introducing that 1 man army mentality. When infantry, particularly roman and greek (lets face it barbs will get the short end if they mass deploy raise shields) can stand up to archers and cavalry, what is supposed to beat them? Just more infantry? Sounds Pyrrhic.

 

I'm not against more units getting raise shields, but probably only barbarians. I don't want to see everything getting it. It's already hard enough to kill heavy infantry when they aren't in testudo, but allowing everything to get 70-80% MB would be a total joke.



Arkkinite #8 Posted 31 October 2017 - 11:26 AM

    Junior Sergeant

  • Closed Alpha Gladiators
  • 180
  • Member since:
    11-27-2016

Im looking for unit differentiation; across factions, tiers and commander... and so while as an infantry commander i obviously like raise shield, i also want different units to standout in their own way. E.g. sacred band for buffing and hypaspist for manuvourability. 

 

So i am a bit conflicted about raise shield... 



R_Valle #9 Posted 31 October 2017 - 12:20 PM

    Junior Sergeant

  • Closed Alpha Gladiators
  • 179
  • Member since:
    08-18-2017
Only melee infantry should have raised shields.

Ranged units never expose themselves if played correctly, only if they are hungry for kills and want to get it no matter what, that's when they get punished by cav and should. Also that's why you have infantry support, to protect them. No, missile units shouldn't be able to kill or cause big damage to troops coming to them with huge shields, anyone in a decent state of mind would raise their shields, its just natural.

And you guys are confusing a Testudo like ability with what I am suggesting, even though I would love to see every decent roman infantry with testudo (because that would be historically accurate) it would be kinda bad for missile units, my suggestion is to add a very rudimentary raised shields, like pikemen has, it does not block every arrow but gives a very basic protection to front arrows.

Archers still have infinite ammo, it wouldn't hurt them in any way, they would need to rely on teamwork to force the enemy to lower its shields, or else they can just shoot infinitely and will still cause damage but not the total destruction like it is now. 
Don't know how CA made a basic ability become a special one.

Aven007 #10 Posted 18 November 2017 - 10:41 AM

    Lance-corporal

  • Closed Alpha Gladiators
  • 17
  • Member since:
    05-18-2013

View PostArdez, on 31 October 2017 - 03:16 AM, said:

I'm not against more units getting raise shields, but probably only barbarians. I don't want to see everything getting it. It's already hard enough to kill heavy infantry when they aren't in testudo, but allowing everything to get 70-80% MB would be a total joke.

 

+1 A good majority of units can either deflect or dodge missiles.  People need to remember that this game is about teamwork and more often than not the pug itself goes sideways and that's why the match is lost.  You are only frustrated about getting wrecked by barrage because you either haven't figured out how to dodge arrows or teamwork has gone out the window and for them, it's like shooting fish in a barrel.

 

I really don't see the need to nerf Cynane.  She has strong offence with barrage/rapid fire, but she also has MASSIVE weaknesses that can be exploited with a little bit of teamwork.



R_Valle #11 Posted 18 November 2017 - 07:50 PM

    Junior Sergeant

  • Closed Alpha Gladiators
  • 179
  • Member since:
    08-18-2017

View PostAven007, on 18 November 2017 - 07:41 AM, said:

 

+1 A good majority of units can either deflect or dodge missiles.  People need to remember that this game is about teamwork and more often than not the pug itself goes sideways and that's why the match is lost.  You are only frustrated about getting wrecked by barrage because you either haven't figured out how to dodge arrows or teamwork has gone out the window and for them, it's like shooting fish in a barrel.

 

I really don't see the need to nerf Cynane.  She has strong offence with barrage/rapid fire, but she also has MASSIVE weaknesses that can be exploited with a little bit of teamwork.

 

It will not be a huge loss for missile units because they already have infinite ammo, back/side shots do not get blocked by raised shields, and your team can force the enemy unit to lower its shields just by getting near to them, making teamwork even more a thing.

Aven007 #12 Posted 18 November 2017 - 08:51 PM

    Lance-corporal

  • Closed Alpha Gladiators
  • 17
  • Member since:
    05-18-2013

View PostR_Valle, on 18 November 2017 - 07:50 PM, said:

 

It will not be a huge loss for missile units because they already have infinite ammo, back/side shots do not get blocked by raised shields, and your team can force the enemy unit to lower its shields just by getting near to them, making teamwork even more a thing.

 

I disagree.  I would be a great loss to archers.  They just aren't as powerful as you think.

As someone who plays a lot of archer, I can tell you, it's not as easy as it looks to get kills with barrage.  If you are getting roasted by barrage then LEARN.  Not every melee unit has a raise shields ability, because raising their shields slows them down, and makes them vulnerable to melee attack.  Instead, many of the melee groups have some sort of speed boost, or charge mechanism, and those abilities makes barrage just as useless as it is to units who are in cover.

 

The problem with forcing all melee units to have this "cover" mechanic is that everyone will be using it, and it will break Cavalry, or javelin throwers, because these melee units who are now very slow will have no way to defend themselves against fast units, and people will be getting flanked like CRAZY, because everyone will be using this "raise shields" mechanic.  Then people will be complaining that cavalry is broken, again, and javelin throwers are insanely uberly OP towards ALL melee units, and more nerfs will be called for.

 

I hope you get the logic here.  Barrage isn't as broken as you think.  Barrage is NEEDED in higher tiers to be competitive.  2 main ways of avoiding barrage is by zig-zagging towards archer groups, activating a speed boosting ability, or activating a raise shield mechanic.  The units without raise shields are needed to stay how they are, because it's those units with better mobility that are able to hold against cavalry rushes, and can often run down missile units and charge into them.

 

So no.  100% -1 on your idea.  Sorry.  And maybe learn to keep your forces constantly moving, or stop trying to be Rambo and start working together with your team..


Edited by Aven007, 18 November 2017 - 08:53 PM.


R_Valle #13 Posted 19 November 2017 - 12:11 AM

    Junior Sergeant

  • Closed Alpha Gladiators
  • 179
  • Member since:
    08-18-2017
They are as powerful as I think, I play a lot of archers and barrage is another thing that is just absurd, its a A10 Thunderbolt gatling gun spinning at you. Its just ridiculous.

What amazes me is that a such basic ability became a special one, never thought that they would be able to do it, hats off to that. And I do know how to dodge missiles and barrage, I HAVE to do that otherwise I'd lose all my units because those knuckleheads can't lift a shield, specially barbarians that gets eaten by missiles and can't do jack about it.

No, Not everyone will be using it, that's fallacy. You have to relay on teamwork to force them to lower their shields, stop going Rambo and start working together with your team. :)
Also, If you do proper maneuvering you will still be able to do a lot of damage with missile even if they have their shields up.

Arkkinite #14 Posted 20 November 2017 - 04:13 AM

    Junior Sergeant

  • Closed Alpha Gladiators
  • 180
  • Member since:
    11-27-2016

Maybe just give raise shield to low armoured units? (Like someone's suggetion of barb only?)

 

I still think each unit should have only up to 3 unit specific ability, so if the current unit only has two, by all means give em raise shield.

 

Could be also increase the spread of barrage? Would that be a terrible idea? Barrage on a stationary target would be less damaging, but itll make dodging very hard.

Or we could give a "tired" state for several seconds after a barrage, that reduces reload speed significantly.



Ardez #15 Posted 20 November 2017 - 04:20 AM

    Zhayedan

  • Praetorian
  • 2,237
  • Member since:
    03-06-2012

View PostArkkinite, on 19 November 2017 - 11:13 PM, said:

Maybe just give raise shield to low armoured units? (Like someone's suggetion of barb only?)

 

I still think each unit should have only up to 3 unit specific ability, so if the current unit only has two, by all means give em raise shield.

 

Could be also increase the spread of barrage? Would that be a terrible idea? Barrage on a stationary target would be less damaging, but itll make dodging very hard.

Or we could give a "tired" state for several seconds after a barrage, that reduces reload speed significantly.

 

There has been a suggestion for making barrage an AoE rather than a stat buff.

Also, the dominant form of barrage is combining Rapid Shot with Barrage, not Barrage alone. Rapid Shot gives an 8 second tired debuff for -50% speed iirc. Of course using Rapid Shot is optional, but that is how you get machine gun barrages.


wwolfvn #16 Posted 20 November 2017 - 04:20 AM

    Sergeant

  • Closed Alpha Gladiators
  • 481
  • Member since:
    02-24-2017

Raise shield should be move from commander's ability to unit ability which provides significantly reduced % missile block compared to the former's.

 

Likewise, testudo should be available for all Rome infantry because it is a very standard practice. Reduce significantly the % missile block too.


"Opportunities multiply as they are seized."


Ardez #17 Posted 20 November 2017 - 04:32 AM

    Zhayedan

  • Praetorian
  • 2,237
  • Member since:
    03-06-2012

View Postwwolfvn, on 19 November 2017 - 11:20 PM, said:

Raise shield should be move from commander's ability to unit ability which provides significantly reduced % missile block compared to the former's.

 

Likewise, testudo should be available for all Rome infantry because it is a very standard practice. Reduce significantly the % missile block too.

 

Raise Shields is a unit ability. Fight in the Shade and Testudo are commander abilities. It exists in both formats.

 

And honestly, I'd rather see loose formation become a unit ability(globally) than testudo become factionwide.



wwolfvn #18 Posted 20 November 2017 - 05:37 AM

    Sergeant

  • Closed Alpha Gladiators
  • 481
  • Member since:
    02-24-2017

View PostArdez, on 19 November 2017 - 10:32 PM, said:

 

Raise Shields is a unit ability. Fight in the Shade and Testudo are commander abilities. It exists in both formats.

 

And honestly, I'd rather see loose formation become a unit ability(globally) than testudo become factionwide.

 

  By Raise Shield I mean a functionality for shielded barb inf.

"Opportunities multiply as they are seized."


R_Valle #19 Posted 20 November 2017 - 01:54 PM

    Junior Sergeant

  • Closed Alpha Gladiators
  • 179
  • Member since:
    08-18-2017

You should be able to choose what unit ability you want to have, that includes raised shields and others, like @balkasg suggested in this thread http://forum.totalwararena.com/index.php?/topic/2614-proposal-to-introduce-customization-and-player-choice-to-unit-abilities/


Example in this image: https://image.prntscr.com/image/egyOVdljQsOO2LZLAXVrmA.png



Elysion #20 Posted 21 November 2017 - 03:51 PM

    Private

  • Closed Alpha Gladiators
  • 7
  • Member since:
    04-12-2011

I dont understand why there is not passive arrow resistance for having a shield active at all times. This is a normal total war mechanic.

To compensate ranged friendly fire into the backs/flanks of enemy infantry should be toned down.







Also tagged with raised, shield, ability, every, melee, infantry

1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users