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Harsher penalties for friendly fire please


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Arclyte #1 Posted 11 October 2017 - 05:17 PM

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I am sick of being shot by friendlies while winning a fight. The penalties for friendly fire need to be higher (if there even is any), and it needs to be shown to the player at the end of the match, so he sees how much XP/silver he's losing by shooting friendlies.

 

Also, phalanx needs to not deal friendly damage, there is no reason for it. Blocking friendly movement through the phalanx would be fine, but not melting them with friendly damage.



MoistKrappenschitz #2 Posted 11 October 2017 - 06:22 PM

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yet another who doesn't care about shooting teammates. OMG why can't there not be a FF punishment or this game is done before it starts. They just shoot into crowds with no punishment why would they care. Take as much health from them as they do their teammates, that would slow them down a lot. SOMETHING!!!!!! round after round same old team killing justfeelsbadman

Edited by MoistKrappenschitz, 11 October 2017 - 06:23 PM.


Ardez #3 Posted 11 October 2017 - 06:33 PM

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Relax guys :D

 

FF penalties were in the game on steam and I am sure they will work their way back in soon. Plenty of threads already exist to discuss what those penalties could be and to discuss what units should or shouldn't cause FF. I'd suggest joining one of those conversations rather than starting another new one.



WaldoVonZude #4 Posted 11 October 2017 - 07:28 PM

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Start more threads.

Applied Behavior Analysis uses only empirical evidence to form generalizations about human behavior. I teach about ABA, public speaking, and leadership as a hobby.

BlydMyst #5 Posted 13 October 2017 - 03:06 AM

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I agree about friendly fire, scaled amount of damage done, so that ranged units dont have to hold back if it is three nme units on one unit down t 5 men.  Also, no friendly fire when you are firing at an nme unit that is engaged with a friendly, but only slighly.  In other words, when 90 % of an nme unit is not actively engaged, is far enough away that no friendly units.

 

Again, this all comes down to people who need to perceive TEAM GAME.  I've had friendly ranged units firing on me when my unitsare at 80-90%.  Cant disengage because I'll get raped by enemy unit if I try.  So, multiple volleys (5-10, whatever).  Thats not a mistake, thats a player trying to push his damage for more xp.

 

I've committed friendly fire, but only when a friendly attacked a unit I was firing on, or I fired on an enemy unit that looked like it wasnt engaged, but had a few men engaged with a friendly.  I immediately STOP firing, except if the friendly is down to just a few men and is heavily engaged.  To do anything else is HURTING my team.

 

So, for achers, stop firing when friendlies engage and for ground units, if an archer unit is tearing up an nme unit, hold back and let them charge you.  Set up to defend your ground, maneuver for position, stay between the nme and an objective.  Archers are your friends and can demoralize and whittle down a unit so when you engage, you will be in a much better position to break the enemy.

 

Remember, TEAM. 



Serevn #6 Posted 13 October 2017 - 05:15 AM

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Yeah it used to show team damage and what you lost cause of it. Don't know why they got rid of it. And pikes damaging friendly units has been in the game since beta on steam. Probably meant to keep people from forming some kind of porcupine formation. Although accidentally having a unit deleted cause they walked through pikes, even when the pikes in phalanx aren't fighting anything, has been an ongoing issue.

BlydMyst #7 Posted 13 October 2017 - 05:55 AM

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View PostSerevn, on 13 October 2017 - 05:15 AM, said:

Yeah it used to show team damage and what you lost cause of it. Don't know why they got rid of it. And pikes damaging friendly units has been in the game since beta on steam. Probably meant to keep people from forming some kind of porcupine formation. Although accidentally having a unit deleted cause they walked through pikes, even when the pikes in phalanx aren't fighting anything, has been an ongoing issue.

 

I can see the practical reason for this, any troops running at a pike formation deployed would get hurt, its the reality side of the game which I hope they stick too.

 

What would be nice is if they has "passthrough" (lack of a better term) that would either groud pikes or split the formation.  The Romans used a three rankf ormation, with skirmishers (javelins) at the front, the medium or less experienced heavy legionnaires in the second line, and the Triarii (historically, the experienced and armored legionnaires in the legion)  on the back row.  The javelineers would attack with javelins and then before thevnme closed to melee distance, would run through the second third rows to reform behind the Triarii, then move to cover the flanks.  The second line would fight until it was taking too many losses, then move behind the Triarii to regroup with their effectives while Triarri held off the enemy with pikes.  Once they had regrouped, they would either move back to the front line of the formations and the Triarii would fall back, and take a position to repeat the process.

 

This is how the Romans broke the dominance of the phalanx as the pre-eminent fighting formation, as the Romans, far more heavily armored than phalanx troops would wear down under constant pressure.

 

This, along with the Romans legion fighting in a set formation and superiir logistics is what led to the Romans conquering most of the known world.

 

So their needs to be way for troops to disengage without getting wiped out turning around, move back through the formatiin and keep rotating troops to win battles the way they won in real life.

 

The easiest way would be for Rqqoman spears to have no effect on your own unit. Totally against that, its cheesy and unrealistic.  Another way would beaches for Roman units to have a Roman only toggle command, "break files?, which would allow the roman troops to retreat through their own lines and then reform files.  They could ground spears, but that would leave the Triarii defenseless during the several seconds between the toggle of the formation.

 

Lastly, they could allow the presetting of formations or after the spawn-in.  But I'll post separate thread on that suggestion.

 

The Roman three rank formation looked like this in each unit:

 

JJJJ      JJJJ      JJJJ

        LLLL      LLLL      LLLL

TTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT

         

 

If anyone has any ideas on how to solve this condrum, not to forget the fighting retreat for each file to fallback without being imediately destroyed while trying to move back behind the third file.


Edited by BlydMyst, 13 October 2017 - 06:02 AM.


Frith #8 Posted 14 October 2017 - 12:13 AM

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View PostBlydMyst, on 13 October 2017 - 03:06 AM, said:

I agree about friendly fire, scaled amount of damage done, so that ranged units dont have to hold back if it is three nme units on one unit down t 5 men.  Also, no friendly fire when you are firing at an nme unit that is engaged with a friendly, but only slighly.  In other words, when 90 % of an nme unit is not actively engaged, is far enough away that no friendly units.

 

Again, this all comes down to people who need to perceive TEAM GAME.  I've had friendly ranged units firing on me when my unitsare at 80-90%.  Cant disengage because I'll get raped by enemy unit if I try.  So, multiple volleys (5-10, whatever).  Thats not a mistake, thats a player trying to push his damage for more xp.

 

I've committed friendly fire, but only when a friendly attacked a unit I was firing on, or I fired on an enemy unit that looked like it wasnt engaged, but had a few men engaged with a friendly.  I immediately STOP firing, except if the friendly is down to just a few men and is heavily engaged.  To do anything else is HURTING my team.

 

So, for achers, stop firing when friendlies engage and for ground units, if an archer unit is tearing up an nme unit, hold back and let them charge you.  Set up to defend your ground, maneuver for position, stay between the nme and an objective.  Archers are your friends and can demoralize and whittle down a unit so when you engage, you will be in a much better position to break the enemy.

 

Remember, TEAM.

 

 

You mentioned an issue that I believe should be highlighted.  I stop firing when I get the reports of friendly fire.  But I've had occasions where I had archers firing on unengaged units which were then engaged by teammates who immediately started complaining about friendly fire.  If we (rightly) insist that ranged units not fire when enemies are engaged with our allies, we must also insist that our allies not intentionally engage units who are currently under attack by ranged units.  As you stated, TEAM.

 

I believe we need some kind of in-battle indicator that shows when an enemy unit is under fire by friendly ranged units.



AnaxofRhodes #9 Posted 15 October 2017 - 06:36 PM

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Hoplite Phalanx = mini-Pikes.  It's a powerful ability, making them supreme defensive infantrymen.  The Fatigue and friendly fire features balance that out.  Don't take it away.  It's an important balancing mechanic.

 

I do miss the friendly fire penalty score.  Make that visible to your whole team at the end of the match.


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durandy #10 Posted 15 October 2017 - 10:03 PM

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Yea I charged in to help prevent archers from being attacked. I had more units than the enemy... I died to my "friendly" archer who was just trying to pad is kill count. 

TheTrashkan #11 Posted 17 October 2017 - 03:04 PM

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I agree ff is an issue but I don't think you should be penalized for it. If they penalize me for using pikes when horses charge into the enemy I'm fighting why should i be penelized for a bad decision my teammate made? If ff is a penalty I don't think many pike lines will be around to protect you.

Sor_Lucasto #12 Posted 18 October 2017 - 03:03 AM

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The Friendly Fire is real... and it's not that friendly, I'm afraid.

 

Something really has to be done about it. There are players who just don't give a **** if they are killing more of your units than the enemy's, no matter how much you ping or implore in the chat for them to stop (even if it means they are going to be exposed to charges after your units, that were defending them, rout after getting destroyed by FF).

 

If penalizing the player who does FF is a bad option (and I generally think it is since people tend to respond better to positive feedback), some other measure that actually affects the game needs to be taken. Only displaying via the UI during the incident is clearly not working.

 

>Maybe deducting FF from final kill count and warning players that it happened? It wouldn't affect the amount of XP or silver gained but would prevent the player from scoring high in the matches... (but it would need to be explained to the player knows what's going on and improve accordingly)

 

>Or awarding a bonus to XP to the units of the player that did the least FF during the match? (it would have to be % based according to the number of archers fielded by that player since you can bring 1, 2 or 3 units of archers)

 

Anyways, just posting it here because I'm tired of getting more of my men killed by allies than by enemies... :(



AnaxofRhodes #13 Posted 18 October 2017 - 04:54 AM

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View PostTheTrashkan, on 17 October 2017 - 08:04 AM, said:

I agree ff is an issue but I don't think you should be penalized for it. If they penalize me for using pikes when horses charge into the enemy I'm fighting why should i be penelized for a bad decision my teammate made? If ff is a penalty I don't think many pike lines will be around to protect you.

 

Hmm, this is a very good point.  If someone on your team really doesn't like you, they'll intentionally move their soldiers into your line of fire, causing your score to plummet.  At the same time, we can't have Archers padding their kill score without consequences for firing on friendlies.  That's a dilemma only a human can solve. :confused:
"Make no show of cowardice then on your part, seeing the greatness of the issues at stake, and I will show that what I preach to others I can practice myself." - Brasidas




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