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#14516 [RIP] Balance Suggest: Tone down all commander abilities

Posted wwolfvn on 24 September 2017 - 04:25 PM

The commander abilities in TW Arena are making the game more MOBA than RTS which is the soul of Total War. Let us tone down all the commander abilities across the board. This brings at least three-fold benefits:

  1. Make Total War RTS great again in Arena. Less to no more +110% melee attack, or +80% melee defense, or sudden -30 morale, etc. in the middle of the fights. Total War Arena is a game in the Total War franchise, thus let the strategic decision and clever maneuver decide the tide of the battle, not the commander abilities. Of course, commander abilities would still be able to make impact to some extent, and offer the grinding incentive in MOBA-sense.
  2. Easier to make balance across the board. With less impact from commander abilities, it is much easier to apply tweaks to units stat and balance the game.
  3. Easier to add more new units and commanders to the game. Every new unit or commander introduced needs to be tested thoroughly to balance with the rest. Hence, less impact from commander abilities makes it easier to test and bring new units/commanders to the fold.


All your comments, suggestions for this topic are welcome.


Update: added testudo


In MOBA game, e.g. dota2, you can respawn multiple times in one game. You can't do it in TW Area because of the death is permanent per game. Unfortunately, the current skills + talents in TW Arena are pushing the game more and more into such MOBA direction. This should be addressed as soon as possible.


Tone-down suggestion list for commander:


Skill Commander Tier Priority Reason Suggest rework
Barrage Cynane X 1 we all know what it is about  
Anvil Alex X 3

about 40s cooldown + 30s duration: too long for a disable skill that can silent + cancel attack order, disarming the victim, i.e. death. The disarming ability makes unit under effect standing zombie (vs. walking zombie by oath).

Defiance Vercingetorix X 2-3 we all know what it is about. It's important to note that Verx tweak should be on contingent with Cynane's  Barrage nerf because Verx  cav is the main type of high-tier cav that quick enough to possibly maneuver to get a charge into the boxed archer+bodyguard. Nerf Defiance without Barrage nerf will likely further destroy the meta balance.  
Shield bash Leo X 3 about 15s cooldown: huge  dps  that can wipe 40% hp with phalanx thrust. Exploit it properly with back-pedaling makes Leo shield bash too devastating.  
Whip Sulla X 3-4 +80% melee attack buff is just too much since there is a -60% melee attack debuff coming from Proscription. (the insta -stake benefit of Sulla should be addressed also)  
Vengeance Germa X 4 unnecessarily exceeding melee attack/damage buff. But it's good on paper since disengaging is very easily done to render Vengeance partial useless at high tier, plus Rome inf's morale is very squishy.  
Fear Miltiades X 2-3 Long duration + huge debuff on morale and speed with very short cd. It is not fun to be constantly (yes like perma) slowdown and get -40% speed reduction, even when playing cavs.  
Vici Caesar 4-5 Full upgrade increases the range of silence. And with insta-caltrop + long duration make it impossible to break the javs box guarded by spear. Let alone the speed debuff.re;background:none;"> Imo any silence should not be enabled with significant speed debuf like caltrop.  
Testudo Germanicus X 10 Should be capped at 90%. Current can well exceed 100%.  
Hunt Cynane X 3 This ability should be removed or tweaked because it kind of breaks the strategic planning so badly. No surprise maneuver possible because 1 minute hunted from far away means your sneaky cavalry is watching 24/7 by archers & co.  



Buff suggestion list for commander:


Skill Commander Tier Priority Reason Suggest rework
Oath of Perseverance Scipio X 1 this is the second  uselss ultimate from the top. The recent afk fix was acting as an unintended nerf to Scipio's underperformed ultimate.  
Infiltration Armin X 1

not sure if it is better to remove this skill completely or rework.

Frenzy Armin X 1 too many down sides tops this skill in the TWA useless-skill ranking.  
Wedge Alex X 4-5 used to be one of the OP skill at the beginning of CBT. Now it's kind of malfunctioning at this moment due to the charge nerf.  
Ambush Boudica X 5 imo it seems to be more fitting into Armin skillset of hit & run tactic. But it needs to have some rework to tweak it in such direction at first.  
Testudo Germanicus X 10 Remove or adjust the talent that +/- melee defense because the current testudo gets deactivated upon contact. Or bring back the attack / defense testudo from Stream.  



#1086 Conflict of Interests

Posted First_Spear on 18 December 2016 - 09:42 PM

I would have to say marriage because Arena isn't gonna feed you chicken noodle soup when you have the flu.

#20965 Pikes are meant to be the premiere defensive unit right?

Posted balkasg on 19 February 2018 - 02:12 AM

View PostAncient_Exile, on 19 February 2018 - 01:33 AM, said:

But anyways PIKEs have hard counters as in: Javelins, Arty, Light Arty, rear flanks, Fear, scorched earth, Dogs, and what about Caesar and his silence ability OMG it rocks..........


*Queue Laugh Track* What is your definition of a "hard counter"? Is it "anything that prevents me from walking into the enemy base, forming a noob-box with pikes and winning?"


How are dogs a hard counter to Leonidas, have you heard of shield bash? Pikes are not anymore vulnerable to any of those things you listed than any other infantry in the game. Pikes take far less damage from arty than any other infantry because of their long-spaghetti-line formations. The difference an artillery boulder volley can do to a pike compared to a roman infantry formation or hell, even a barbarian infantry formation, is miles apart. Same deal with scorched earth. Same deal with scorpion bolts. In fact, Pikes are already better at dealing with everything you listed as a "hard counter" (except maybe fear which is whatever) than any other infantry and apparently it's still not good enough for you.


In another thread you want vici to only work on commander abilities (gee i wonder why...) so you clearly don't believe ceasar should be a counter to pikes. You also want leonidas pikes to be able to raise shields in addition to phalanx, so clearly you dont think javs or ranged in general should be a counter to pikes. Rear flank is not a counter to pikes, its a counter to EVERYTHING in the game, and it requires multiple units in order to defeat your SINGLE unit. Infact flanking is not even a counter to leonidas pikes because they can be completely flanked and still murder everything thanks for Hold-the-Line. So why don't you tell us what you really believe should be a counter to pikes then?


You are not a serious actor, you just want your favorite unit to remain completely overpowered because you are a one-trick pony who is unable to adapt so spare us... Nobody is going to take you seriously when your motives are so transparent.

#666 In general on alternate play-styles.

Posted Benjamin_8 on 15 December 2016 - 09:21 PM

That was a good show I only saw a few episodes though.

#576 In general on alternate play-styles.

Posted Benjamin_8 on 13 December 2016 - 05:49 PM

Looks deadly!!!!!!!!!!!

#558 In general on alternate play-styles.

Posted Benjamin_8 on 12 December 2016 - 09:10 PM

As far as your previous allocated points/sp (being as we have to get our LOVELY wipe) go how many of yall will be swapping your favored faction (regretted wasted points) for a new approach to the new ARENA? This conversation of course being based on the old BETA being as we have no INFO on the new BETA!!!!!!! Just a decent conversation topic I guess for the ARENA hanger-ons.

#609 In general on alternate play-styles.

Posted Benjamin_8 on 15 December 2016 - 02:46 AM

Little Brad Pitt clones is what they were!!!!

#582 In general on alternate play-styles.

Posted Benjamin_8 on 13 December 2016 - 09:59 PM

Stupid ROMAN!!!!!!!!!!!!! *__* For DOUBTING the lowly slinger!!!!!!!!

#4037 Quick Question About the NDA RE: Recording for Future Use

Posted Ancient_Exile on 03 March 2017 - 05:21 AM

Then there was that AWKWARD silence!!!!! *__*

#339 New names/identies

Posted Benjamin_8 on 29 November 2016 - 09:07 PM

Im quite sure being that the progress reset has been INITIALIZED so to speak. Oooops!!! That quite a few folks / previous beta players are going to take the opportunity and create a new persona. This is quite alarming to me because all the previous masochistic chumps are going to be capable of hiding in plain sight with their SHINY NEW little NAMES. I understand a lot of names will be taken already but just so you KNOW you will be discovered!!!!!!!!! HA! HA! HA! GNAW just teasing or am EYE!!!!!!!!!

But on a serious note it sucks that a lot of us are gonna have to give up some pretty unique names because some WG turd has already been using that name. *__* (P.S. I can say WG turd because as soon as ARENA launches I will be one TOO)

#1814 Alpha

Posted Five00 on 29 January 2017 - 03:14 PM

I have been a member of War Gaming since April 13, 2012 and I didn't get an Alpha key.  You just need to be patient!!! 

#1586 Closed Alpha Gladiators???

Posted Benjamin_8 on 27 January 2017 - 04:28 PM


#1178 In general on alternate play-styles.

Posted Benjamin_8 on 19 December 2016 - 08:13 PM

Topic died so please close!

#559 Will clans in Arena cost money to create?

Posted Benjamin_8 on 12 December 2016 - 09:14 PM

Also as far as clans work in WoT and WoWs are there many clans that are American tanks only or German tanks only etc. etc.? Or do most of the clans realize that variety is a necessity?

#4039 Fifth Dimension Discord

Posted Ancient_Exile on 03 March 2017 - 05:29 AM

Any problems with discord just submit a ticket to ARDEZ the local Discord I.T. representative..............

#335 What was your favorite Map and Unit type from the previous beta?

Posted Benjamin_8 on 29 November 2016 - 08:37 PM

Indeed Indeed some of my most memorable moments were at that freaking tower. Also, more often than not; it came down to one player left on each side to determine the VICTORS!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Bone tingling victory or defeat by a simple 100 points LOL. Even though I normally would take one spear and 2 cav OR 2 spear and one slinger. *__*

#2401 Quick Question About the NDA RE: Recording for Future Use

Posted Ancient_Exile on 22 February 2017 - 01:30 PM

Where in the world is ARDEZ when you need him!!!!!!!!!!!!!

#12241 Dogs should be considered kills

Posted Ardez on 01 September 2017 - 07:23 PM

See title.



After fighting dogs, you walk away with a lot of dead and no kills to account for. I'd rather just see a combat score on the scoreboard, but if we can't have that, add dogs to the kill count.

#1180 New names/identies

Posted Benjamin_8 on 19 December 2016 - 08:14 PM

Topic died please close!

#4036 so when are we gonna battle again?

Posted Ancient_Exile on 03 March 2017 - 05:15 AM

About time to re-ask when I reckon!!!!! For the next test..........